Interview with Martin J. Carney (Director of Financial Assistance Services, University of Miami) conducted by Dan Dalke, October 17, 1992, Miami, Florida. Kings Bay townhomes at $750K each Double whammy from Andrew - upper windows blown out by winds before eye Debris in foreground result of storm surge moving through lower levels. Courtesy National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Adminstration Photo Library

Dalke: Okay Marty, first question is when Hurricane Andrew hit the South Florida area on the first day of orientation at the University of Miami. Before the Hurricane hit, what kind of year were you expecting with financial assistance for not only entering, but returning students as well?

Carney: We were off to a real good start, Dan, to the academic year, we had a real good summer processing wise, we had pretty much, most of the loan applications in, that we received during the summer processed and funds had actually been received on behalf of most of the students, by the office of student account services, and we were looking forward to a real smooth process, heading into the new year.

Dalke: Do you feel that the University was prepared for the possible costs associated with a natural disaster like a hurricane?

Carney: I don't think so, and it may just have to, it maybe cause its a result to such a tremendous storm as we had in Andrew. I don't think anyone expected the damage to the extent that we received, and umm, due to the fact that so many people are transplanted um, from other locations throughout the country and hadn't experienced a hurricane, and certainly nothing as devastating as Andrew; nobody had any idea of the ramifications, so I don't think that we were as well prepared as we should have been, of course I don't think we could have been, not having been through it once.

Dalke: Okay. Um, where were you and your family when the storm hit?

Carney: Uhh, this is an interesting question. I am embarrassed to say that I wasn't here for the Hurricane, uh, my family was here though. They had to stomach it without me. My grandfather had died on August 21st.

Dalke: I'm sorry.

Carney: And so I had left to go to Cleveland to be at the funeral, thinking that the Hurricane was heading towards Titusville at that point that's where all the tracks were leading it to, and so I felt safe enough to leave, and um by the time I got up there I was getting a little antsy, but family members and neighbors convinced me to stay up there. My family lives up in Broward, so we were far better off than people are down here in Dade, but it was still scary that they were going through it, and I being 1200 miles away.

Dalke: Sure, sure. What was your first reaction when you first came back from your trip and saw your neighborhood, an also when you first came onto campus?

Carney: The first thing that hit me when I got back to Fort Lauderdale; I flew out of Fort Lauderdale, was my car. It had received some damage because it was parked there outside in the long term parking lot, and driving to west broward; I live in Westin, um I was amazed to see the number of trees down, and things like that. I got back, umm I think it was on Wednesday after the Hurricane hit, umm the following day I came down to the University, I came down both Thursday and Friday, and was shocked to the how devastated the campus was with all the debris, trees, and things like that, I guess I expected to be hit worse than it was, but until you see it, umm ahh it doesn't have the impact on it, but I guess I expected more hearing that the uhh.. Hurricane Centers satellites and other communication equipment where blown off the roof of the building across the street, so I knew it was going to be bad so I guess I expected more building damage, umm and I felt that we were fortunate that we didn't experience as much as I had anticipated seeing, but to see the campus being hit so hard, especially with the trees being down and that sort of thing, and just trying to negotiate getting my car onto campus that Thursday, its just unbelievable in knowing that there were students and parents on campus and having to get them off campus, those were all things going through my mind.

Dalke: What kind of preparation took place before the students came back to campus in the financial assistance office?

Carney: Well, we had to have several different types of meetings, uhh with different types of organizations, uhh these checks that I had talked about earlier, that were received here on campus, there is a regulation that they must be dispersed in a period of thirty days after the check had been cut and in some cases those checks had been cut where when Sept. 14th rolled around when school started officially again, it would have been after the thirty day limitation, so we had to get some ahh special authorization to hold those checks, ahh we had meeting with the dept. of education, who came to campus and then worked with us in trying to meet the need of hurricane victims, uhh setting those people up in an area on campus, getting them some hardware so that they could provide assistance to students from the community as well as the University, uhh there were some issues dealing with the state of Florida that we had to iron out, again with the different starting dates in school, so we were kept pretty busy.

Dalke: Uhh, what role did the state and federal government play in the financial situations of those students affected by the storm?

Carney: uhh, unfortunately the state wasn't able to help out at all other than maybe supplying some encouraging support verbally; they certainly called to see how we were doing, and in some cases staff from the state assisted the financial aid community down at Miami Dade, helping by doing some processing and things like that, they worked though, part of the team that came to our campus (UM). The federal government set up adjacent to our registration table over in the cafeteria and saw approximately 250 or so students, most of those were our (UM) students. They were attempting to try and provide some service to students affected by the hurricane, getting some information from those students and putting it into their database in hopes of producing some additional paperwork to make them eligible for a Pell Grant, or in the case of those students eligible for a Pell Grant maximizing their eligibility if they could. We had in our preliminary discussions with the federal government indicated that most of the students that come to the University from the severely effected areas of south Dade are high need students and in most cases were eligible for the Pell Grant and were in most cases eligible for the maximum amount of the Pell Grant, so that type of service that they were going to provide, uhh would be setting some expectations of students anticipating some more aide than what they were potentially going to get. And certainly the University at that point in time when the Hurricane hit had fully allocated all of our institutional financial aid and so we could not assist them any further, so we were pushing the government to make the decision to provide some additional federal funds, uhh we suggested that they create a new program called a "hurricane grant" or "natural disaster grant" or something like that, that funds could be specifically targeted for victims of the hurricane and they would know then that it was the federal government providing a special grant to help them as a result of the natural disaster. They (fed. govt.) took our suggestions and information back with them, and had some discussions in Washington, and what eventually did happen was, uhh that they determined that students from the effected area would be eligible for some currently existing programs that they have to the supplemental educational opportunity garuning college work study, unfortunately the timing that took place for that funding to be authorized and then notification that funding be received by our office umm, we just got that information within the last week or so (current date is November 18th), and we are only now in the process of determining eligibility for a student to help them out for Spring semester, since this semester is completely shot. So, I'm glad that we got the money, I just wish it was a little more expeditious. And if there was any frustration, that was the frustration. And it may have been because uhh at the point in time with the election that was anticipated that when the hurricane hit we were a month away from the election, and uhh administration things, politic things, and then again maybe that's just the way its going to happen regardless, I don't know. But, we did get a pretty sizable sum of assistance, about 3 million dollars, a little over 3 million dollars, to help out students. We are happy that we got it. The timing could have been better.

Dalke: And that's going to help out students for this Spring?

Carney: That's what were doing now. Most of the students now for this semester have made arrangements to become financially registered so, we are going to award it specifically for the Spring semester. And in some cases students may have even borrowed some funds to help them meet their obligations for the Fall semester, and if that's the case when they register for Spring, when they get their award for Spring semester and if they have more aide than what the charges are, they'll get a credit and they could use the credit and pay off their obligations for the Fall semester if they found funds from somewhere, so it should work out.

Dalke: Did the unexpected costs of cleanup and other remodeling costs affect the amount of aid awarded by the University?

Carney: No. Our budget for financial aid purposes was not effected by that what so ever.

Dalke: Okay, okay. Um, how much of an impact do you feel that the storm had on the number of students who attended this year, both freshmen and transfers?

Carney: (Heavy sigh) Well, that's a difficult question for me. I think it effected our freshmen enrollment a bit. I guess it probably didn't effect it as much as I had originally anticipated. I do know anicdotally off the top of my head, at least 5-6 cases where students contacted me specifically and said gee I went to XYZ school and now the hurricane hits, now I want to come to the University (of Miami). You awarded me financial aide previously and can I still get that financial aide if I enroll now for the Fall semester. So, umm the fact that the hurricane did hit students had the opportunity to go somewhere they may not have liked their experience or due to the hurricane they wanted to be closer to their family. With us starting two weeks later, I think we may have gotten some students we typically would not have gotten, in fact I have mentioned to Debbe (Deborah T. Perry: Dean of Enrollments at UM) and Paul (Paul Orehovec: Associate Dean of Enrollments) that maybe we might want to consider starting after Labor Day, as a matter of practice, because we might get some students that we typically wouldn't get, because they may have had a bad experience where they started the second or third week of August; completely had a bad experience and then come here. And I think with our transfer enrollment, we did experience an increase in enrollment, not really an increase in enrollment, but we did meet our target (for transfer students) and then had a little bit more than what our target called for. I think that maybe attributed to people wanting to stay close to home. That's again just anicdotally, I haven't seen anything like that, but my guess would be that students who would typically have gone away to school, particularly the Miami Dade students, they might have decided to stay closer to home. The overall numbers show that we were down in freshmen, and up a little in transfers so it had some effect, but it wasn't the effect I had anticipated, I don't think it was as bad as I had originally expected.

Dalke: Okay, are there any special cases or stories about returning students who were severely effected by the storm who still returned to start the semester that stand out in your mind?

Carney: Yeah, there is this one student who submitted an appeal letter, asking for some additional financial aide that included some pictures of their apartment, umm that was completely destroyed by the hurricane, and in this case the student was not from this area residing off campus; an upperclass student, undergraduate student, who was residing off campus and as one might imagine that got completely wiped out. Everything that this person had here associated with her going to school, got completely destroyed. She had for the most part moved everything down from the Northeast. That really hit home. To see the pictures, obviously that came with her appeal letter, and know that everything she basically had was lost and she was still attempting to, ahh, make ends meat, and try and get here to school, try to work through just getting clothes to put on her back. It was a pretty touching letter to receive, and the impact of seeing the photographs really hit home. And then to see her work through her issues, and then to see her here (this semester), and moving along. She's nowhere near to the point where she was originally before the hurricane, she's moving towards, I think she's a senior finishing her degree, that is what she is focused on. That has been a touching story.

Dalke: Okay, Has the financial costs that the University assumed due to the storm affected the amount of financial aid available to students for next year?

Carney: I haven't seen that yet Dan, umm, the primers that we put together for the early decision programs show the typical increases one might expect to offset any proposed increases in tuition. There is still ahh a commitment that we have made this past year for scholarships (academic), and so ahh I don't anticipate any changes to that. We could always have a situation where umm, at the eleventh hour we need to make some changes down the road for regular decision (March 1 deadline) students, but I don't really anticipate that. I do feel that people in the administration really understand the impact and the need, especially after the hurricane has hit for the financial aid funding. I have been relatively pleased. We could always use more, but you can only go to the well so often. So, I think we are in pretty good shape.

Dalke: Okay. The President of the University mentioned in his opening speech to the freshmen class that this storm will make the University stronger and pull a well knit community even closer together. In your mind what are some of the long term effects that the University community will feel due to the storm?

Carney: Well, I think he hit the nail on the head. The fact that we as a community have been through such a devastating experience. Its a bonding type issue and that people that you hear about in just their own communities, neighbors that never really talked to one another are interacting more. I think the same is true with people on campus. And that can only help. I guess, not a negative, but a concern issue, at least in this office we had eight of twenty-three staff members, so at least one-third of our staff had severe damage to their home, or completely lost there home. So we have had staff members trying to work through rebuilding, and there is alot of stress, as one might imagine, trying to do just the day to day things associated with work and family life, let alone trying to rebuild their lives after the hurricane, trying to rebuild their homes and that sort of thing. I think that there will be more long term things that we will have to address as a University in that respect. At least more so than what I had originally anticipated. And talking with some of the folks that are going through that, that is the prevailing concerns that I am hearing. I think were working closer together, and yes we are closely knit. There are some concerns that I have about the impact and the tremendous effort that families have had to make in the rebuilding effort that has effected them, and how it can effect their performance and work and things like that, so we have done some things as a University like set up counseling; I'm not convinced its been enough. We may need to make some more concerted efforts in that respect.

Dalke: Okay Marty, that's all the questions that I have. Do you have any final comments that you would like to add or anything you would like to state for the record about the hurricane?

Carney: (Pause) umm, I guess the only thing that I could say relative to the University is that the tremendous job that Physical Plant and offices associated with that office did putting the University back together again so to speak, umm in the short time frame that they had prior to the start of school again. That first day that I came back after the hurricane hit and knowing that school was going to start September 14th, I thought that that was going to be a mistake. That we were going to start to early. The campus would never be ready. Looking at the damage as I walked across the campus from building 37K to the Ashe bldg or law school for a meeting, I didn't think it could happen. It did. And it's amazing to see; what are we going on? Three months now? Almost to the date that you're interviewing me (laughing). Umm, to see how nature has begun to.. Umm, things are growing back already, and blooms are on the trees and things like that. To see that, it has been a powerful metamorphosis so to speak. It has been kind of touching. We couldn't have expected that. For nature itself to...For nature to take its course, we have all read that I guess, even as a kid in biology. But to see that actually happen, it has been pretty moving.

Dalke:Well, thanks Marty. I'd like to thank you letting me interview you. And well keep you informed on what happens.